New Insta360 x4 with 8k video

Contributing and equipment 360° cameras
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It seems the sensors are still 1/2" and there’s still no GPS.
Also, no info about video time lapse or photo time lapse specs.

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The biggest pain point (IMHO) with the X3 is the length of processing time/CPU power required to stitch the video before it is useful to upload (https://help.mapillary.com/hc/en-us/articles/11951588568604-Insta360-X3)

I haven’t seen whether the X4 addresses this in any way (my suspicion is that it does not unfortunately, which leads to the continued recommendation of the GoPro Max and PANOX V2 for consumer 360 capture for Mapillary)

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If minimizing processing time and convenience is the priority then I think the Ricoh theta X is likely a even better option, as it has a built-in GPS and does the stitching in real-time. So the files are ready to be uploaded immediately, and this can quite convenient when you get home and have a several hours of video to upload… That convenance does come at a premium cost though; (and no, I have not tried the GoPro Max and PANOX V2 workflows so could be wrong).

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Based off my painful experience with my X3, I don’t think this one would work any better for mapillary. The missing GPS signal was the worst part about the X3 and since the X4 STILL doesn’t have it, I would expect the alternatives such as the remote to not work at all still or a phone to have terrible reception as usual.

At the current moment, I think an X3/X4 would be more useless than just using your phone as a dashcam on the mobile app. Plus the suction cup mounts for them are rated atrociously low (50 mph) and they have fallen off at about only 35 mph in my experience. (Didn’t help that it happened on a bridge over a busy highway :sob:)

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Well, there are also camera mounts that actually hold. I wouldn’t think of sticking a camera on the roof without additional security either

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@brunofilmklov - yes, the drag/drop workflow is the same for the GoPro Max and the PANOX V2, so that’s part of what makes them really attractive (together with built-in GPS)

@Hopen111 - which mount were you using? I’ve heard good things about the Fat Gecko triple mount.

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I was using the official insta360 mount. It costs way too much for the performance you get from it (About 40 USD each).

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Hi Boris,

This is getting a bit off topic, but reaction to the the article was:

  • The resolution increase is a good, but a bit meh – not sufficient to remove the need to a directional camera; a 16K resolution is likely what is needed replace the dashcam.
  • A large battery is good, but unless its replaceable it’s only useful sometimes, and one needs will likely need to be prepared to have the camera connected to a power bank anyway most of the time while mapping…
  • Lens guards - I think this is must have on for 360 cameras - basically is a consumable, as the lenses are too exposed and prone to be polished/scratched, and thus effectively gradually and unevenly reducing the effective the resolution. Really wish this was available for my camera.
  • While the rubber coating might reduce the risk of accidents, but I have bad experiences with deterioration with time - and if that stick residue ends up on the lens, that could be really bad.
  • Don’t think the heralds the next era of 360 cameras - it merely mostly catches up with the competition, i.e. PANOX V2 and Theta X.

GPS tacking

The bluetooth add on GPS-receiver for the X3/X4 is also one my biggest concerns, when choosing my current camera. Can you share your experiences to share, regarding what works and doesn’t when using the Insta360 GPS-remote (w.r.t. avoiding missing GSP-data and/or poor cuaracy) ?

My experience is that for recording while on foot or on bicykle, from my attempts to use the phone as a GPS-recorder for the Theta V and with the Theta X – is that the GPS-receiver needs a some kind steady-rest to have any useful accuracy. A long a “heavy” (~0.5kg) invisible-stick seems to do the tick for me, (as that adds sufficient interia to slow down random movements).
However car mounted reliable communication would the issue, though I think that would very much depend on how and where remote can be mounted. Have a Bluetooth remote that works reasonably well through a glass sun-roof, but only most of the time, when placed in the “right” spot - it’s good enough for start/stop, but…

Workflow and minimum lead-time comparisons

True the drag/drop workflow with Desktop Uploader is convenient, but I try to avoid as the new process seems more than 3 slower on my end, than using the command line Mapillary Tools and the older process_and_upload the videos process.

Have not done any performance comparisons yet, and but that is something I intended to do later. My upload speed is capped to 50Mbps, and typically the 360 video_process_and_upload (of selected images) is completed in roughly about ½ hour, and then have to wait another 2~3h for the Desktop Uploader finish up the DashCam .MP4 videos… (I tend to be impatient, so if I have to use a dedicated upload tool, then I’m not happy about the later time – when I know it could be faster.)

Well has damaged lens, so I was considering replacing it with a PANOX V2, but that was before I realized it different overall workflow:

  1. Capture video.
  2. Stitch videos in-camera - this a additional step that adds to the workflow minimum lead-time. (Can run as batch job for all unprocessed videos) This will obvious cut the MicroSD expected life time in half, due to the increased were from repossessing the videos. By the way I would appreciate a estimate of how fast this (ratio) is for different frame rates, i.e. 1:1 for 30fps ? 1:1/3 for 10fps? 1:2/30 for 2fps ?
  3. Transfer videos to Laptop (e.g. move the MicroSD)
  4. Upload aka “drag/drop workflow”.

Compare that my workflow with the Theta X:

  1. Capture video; swapping batteries every hour or so (2~5 min si lost each time).
    • (Not needed)
  3. Transfer videos to Laptop (e.g. move the MicroSD)
  4. Process and upload.

Thus to capture ~4 hours of video, the workflow can be done in about 4.5h “machine time” – so pretty good reduction from the ~8h workflow with the Theta V (2/5 recording, 1/4 downloading to the phone, 2/4 time-sync and upload). Obviously sometimes steps 2 and 3 can be combined activities, so so as to not impact the overall lead-time that much, but…

Car mounts

Sorry, not entirely sure what I used last summer, but I believe it was a GoPro AUCMT-302, worked fine up to about ~70km/h, and above the camera had a tendency to resonate in air stream and visibly vibrate. Worked fine for the most part, but it failed to stick to the care twice (likely user error), so I’d also recommend adding safety strap - to save the camber just in case…

Have recently tried the Geila Triple Cup - Suction Camera - Car Mount Triple Suction Cup Mount with 1/4 Threaded Head 360 Degree Tripod Ball Head, seems more stable - but a bit too low for the Theta X, so need to to more experimenting…

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I am a newbie but doesnt the GPS tracker help? to make the process easier?

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Hi @salgo60 - I don’t think the GPS remote that you linked to changes much about the process, it’s just a way to track GPS on a device other than a phone. Generally I’ve heard it can be less accurate than a phone (because phones benefit from Google/Apple’s models to account for poor GPS in urban canyons) and also costs $150. The main pain points in the process are not the GPS collection but the conversion of the video into something that can be used.

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@boris thanks anyone who has Insta360 and Mapillary and/or Google map up working?

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I only use Mapillary for documenting Hikes with my X4. So my requirements differ from street view photographers. For hiking I love the horizon lock of this camera. Here are some examples (open in browser). Take attention of my body position than turn around in the scene. The horizon is really good levelled.

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Excellent @Hol_Ger that is what I try to achieve but still havnt succeded. I tried use Runkeeper to get GPS track with no success link

**Question: @Hol_Ger ** what app/device do you use to get the GPS track

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If your Insta360 were to overheat, there is no more excuse :slight_smile:
This man made a heatsink that works =

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I record the GPS track with a Garmin smartwatch and export the INSV files with Insta360 Studio desktop app:

image
image418×502 33.6 KB

Then with exiftool the GPS locations are inserted into the exported pictures:

exiftool -geotag [gpx_file] directory_with_exported_files/*

Example of a GPS file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<gpx creator="Garmin Connect" version="1.1"
  xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/11.xsd"
  xmlns:ns3="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/TrackPointExtension/v1"
  xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1"
  xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:ns2="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3">
  <metadata>
    <link href="connect.garmin.com">
      <text>Garmin Connect</text>
    </link>
    <time>2024-09-22T08:15:12.000Z</time>
  </metadata>
  <trk>
    <name>Birkenwerder Hiking</name>
    <type>hiking</type>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="52.69562353380024433135986328125" lon="13.2859641127288341522216796875">
        <ele>43</ele>
        <time>2024-09-22T08:15:12.000Z</time>
        <extensions>
          <ns3:TrackPointExtension>
            <ns3:atemp>28.0</ns3:atemp>
            <ns3:hr>88</ns3:hr>
            <ns3:cad>53</ns3:cad>
          </ns3:TrackPointExtension>
        </extensions>
      </trkpt>
      ...
    </trkseg>
  </trk>  
</gpx>
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Thanks @Hol_Ger when I look at my GPS file from Runkeeper it tracks every 10 second

image
image1668×598 170 KB

WIll do some more tests today…

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My watch takes the location every second. The X4 with interval set to 3s effectively stores a 18MP picture every 6s or a 72MP every 9s.

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Except for the 72 MP capability, this and the lack of integrated GPS is pathetic performance, especially considering the price.

I can only attest to this. I am amazed you guys are even ready to put up with this non‑sense mess of fiddling around with GPS trackers and syncing GPX tracks with image files or videos. I have started contributing with a 2010 Canon compact camera with integrated GPS — yes, including real time clock syncing, something that apparently is still a big deal for GoPro and many other action cam makers! — and I have quickly realized that for Mapillary purposes automation and the camera producing a feature complete image is king. Guys, invest your time and money in a camera with integrated GPS. You will be thrilled to learn how much easier life can be if you do not have to waste time on something that should be automated. Let the machine do the work for you and do not be fooled by peak performance figures in a very narrow field of competition.

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For me image quality and horizon levelling are more important. For example I looked on a lot of GoPro Max Photos on mapillary. What I found often or even always were e. g. significant differences in brightness between front and back lenses, really bad horizon levelling, much to deep shadows without any structure left. Maybe you can improve the quality by fiddling around with protune settings, but nobody seems to do it or it does not improve quality significantly.

and I have quickly realized that for Mapillary purposes

This maybe is the point. I am not interested in traffic signs or house numbers. I use Mapillary to document my hikes, how pathes, ways, logging roads and the landscape of course looks like, so people like me can see in advance whether they like a way or not and can plan their own tour accordingly.

The main points in the process are not the GPS collection but the conversion of the video into something that can be used.

You mean one of the many in terms of quality horrible videos on mapillary? I would never do videos. But I am aware that it is needed for “Mapillary purposes”.

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Image quality is very important to me too, and the GoPro MAX is far from being perfect in this regard. And, I fully understand your needs and the fact that they are also somewhat different from what Mapillary is usually used for, @Hol_Ger. I do not care much for horizon leveling; as long as the camera on the stick is oriented more or less perpendicular to the center of Earth’s gravity well then things are good enough for me. :wink: I have not even tried GoPro MAX’ horizon leveling feature. Probably mostly because I know that it is a lame software feature and I would like my imagery to be digitally as pure as possible. I am interested in optical truth, that is in how and when sensor buckets were excited by the physical interaction of photons, not in digital synthetic beautification.

It is true, brightness imbalance is still a weak point of GoPro MAX’ firmware. But, you can tune it really fine or you can capture in raw mode and balance everything in post‑processing (if you are ready to put in the extra effort). If that’s too much work, you can also simply lock sensitivity and the firmware is going to be quite well up to the task balancing exposure time. It is not going to be perfect either but almost. It all depends on settings. You really have to take your time to get to know the camera well and then configure it correctly.

It is also true that the GoPro MAX is weak in low light conditions. There is not much you can do about it (except for capturing with lots of light), especially when moving, because the sensors are just too small. This and its rather low resolution for 360° imagery are the GoPro MAX’ most significant weak points.

However, its GPS lock on time, accuracy, and steady timing are perfect. If you ask for 2 fps in image mode, you get exactly 2 fps. If you ask for 1 fps, you get exactly 1 fps. I think you can go down to ½ fps but I have not tried it. So, GPS and timing are definitely the GoPro MAX’ strong points. The only thing that makes me wonder about it is why the GoPro engineers did not design the MAX with GPS real time clock syncing in mind. You just cannot do it. Period. :roll_eyes: Because according to the engineers, the hardware is incapable of doing it.

The thing is that although you have different needs or a different motivation to capture imagery, you still have to go through the same set of requirements to upload to Mapillary. Well, I guess everybody is also ready to accept different levels of pain. :person_shrugging:

I would not do videos either, at least not for Mapillary.

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